Tuesday, December 20, 2005

Are We In A Sept. 10 State Of Mind?

This is a subject discussed by Daniel Pipes in his latest article. He wrote that he'd feared this after 9/11, despite the great show of commitment:

"Are Americans truly ready to sacrifice liberties and lives to prosecute seriously the war against militant Islam? I worry about US constancy and purpose."

How right he was for many reasons.

* The USA Patriot Act, a landmark of post-September 11 cooperation between the military and law enforcement, passed in the Senate 98-1 in October 2001. Last week, the same bill stalled in the Senate.

* The mainstream press does not take Islamist aspirations seriously and sees the war on terror basically as over, as shown by Maureen Dowd's comment in the New York Times that the Bush administration is trying "to frighten people with talk of Al Qaeda's dream of a new Islamic caliphate."

* Harvard and Georgetown universities each accepted $20 million for Islamic studies from a Saudi prince who overtly promotes his government's Wahhabi outlook, Alwaleed bin Talal.

* A Florida jury somehow managed to overlook the massive evidence of Sami Al-Arian's leading role in Palestinian Islamic Jihad and acquitted him on this charge.

* One leading Islamist organization, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, boasts an endorsement from Wells Fargo Bank, an invitation from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and a letter of congratulations from the president's brother, Jeb Bush. Another, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, hosted representatives of the departments of Justice and State at a conference last week.

He also goes on to list American foreign policy as well as international setbacks, which I'm sure many of us could list ourselves. He then said that others who also worry include Rudy Giuliani and Steven Emerson. And like us, he worries that even another attack here in the US wouldn't be enough to put us back on the track we need to be on if we want life as we know it to continue. It's scary how many people just don't get it.


At 3:55 PM, Anonymous Felis said...

When the next tragedy happens all these people who blame Bush for scare tactics will demand special commissions to investigate "why nothing was done to prevent it and why".

At 4:09 PM, Anonymous Jake Porter said...

I think it is fair to say you and I disagree on this issue but that is ok.

I would like to invite you to join my blog chat and discuss this. I am currently working on getting this up and running and working on times when I can get a few people to join to increase debate. I will try and create a post on this tonight.

At 5:16 PM, Blogger Tran Sient said...

'"why nothing was done to prevent it and why".'

They blamed him for not stopping a hurricane, so why not?

At 5:29 PM, Anonymous Jake Porter said...

I like George Washington believe that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

The government has used the Patriot Act to spy on strip club owners, go after homeless and I ask how is this stopping terrorism and not to forget drugs?

Answer this why has Mr. Bush done so little to stop illegal immigration but so much to take the rights granted to the people from God, away.

First of all I think we can agree that no where in Article 2 does the President have the power to do this and no where in Article 1 does Congress. So therfore it is unconstitutional.

I look forward to having this debate.

At 5:37 PM, Blogger Esther said...

Soooo true, Felis.


At 5:43 PM, Blogger Esther said...

Jake, yep we disagree. But that's okay. :) I'm working right now/tonight so not sure I'll make anything tonight but I'll try.

Where did you get info/see info that they used the Patriot Act on strip club owners, homeless guy? Why? They still have to get a judge to sign off on that. I'd be curious why.

What rights did G-d give us that Bush is trying to take away? Cause G-d didn't write the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, so I'm not too sure which rights you mean. Whatever they are, I would bet people in Arab countries would beg to differ having received those same rights, sadly.

At 6:14 PM, Anonymous Jake Porter said...

The people have rights to do anything they please as long as they don't hurt anyone else. We give the governments priviledges and when they violate their powers they are violating the rights of the people.

Here are the links to the strip club owner

I tried my old links to the other stories and they no longer exist but I will do my best to find them.

Have you ever heard of the northwoods document.

That is one reason I don't trust the government. Another reason is they had my Presidential candidate arrested when he tried to debate Bush and Kerry.

At 12:24 AM, Blogger Rory said...

Unfortunately, the attacks on 9/11 have brought about a new reality, although I think most people would like to strike a balance between protecting Americans and safeguarding our most cherished freedoms, but that could be a balancing act that's very difficult to achieve. However, we're now engaged in a war, and make no mistake...this is a war, against radical Islam. Knowing what we presently do, why are some of the most influential people in this country putting their imprimateur on a group like CAIR? Why are we allowing our universities to be bought by countries that allow fanatics to preach the Wahabist form of Islam, an ideology dedicated to destroying our way of life? Nobody is suggesting that America be turned into a police state (or at least no sane person is). But, believe me, we'll get to see what a police state is really like if the Islamists get their way.

At 2:15 AM, Blogger LASunsett said...

I firmly believe that we will have to get hit again, before some people wake up. Even at that, not all will. They will blame, as they always do.

What many do not realize is that the reason we haven't been hit, is because a lot of people have been working long hours and working hard, to prevent such a thing.

At 11:28 AM, Blogger Esther said...

Civil libertarians have criticized the Bush administration for employing the wide-ranging act to also crack down on drug traffickers and child pornographer

This is from that article on the strip club, Jake. You really want to be upset about this? And who was the candidate arrested? I don't remember.

Exactly Rory.

You got that right, LA!

At 12:00 PM, Anonymous Jake Porter said...

"And who was the candidate arrested?"

Michael Badnarik.

At 12:14 PM, Blogger Esther said...

The Libertarian? You supported him? Are you not fond of Israel? Quotes from him:


His first quote lists our relationship with Israel among the reasons people in the Middle East hate us.


More on equating Palestinian murderers with Israel trying to protect itself.

These are just two examples. I believe the Libertarians have a history of anti-Semitism. You may want to research them more if this is not how you feel.

At 12:49 PM, Anonymous Jake said...

Perhaps this link will provide more insight to how I feel about the Patriot Act.


I agree with Michael that the United States should not be involved in the Middle East and we funded Saddam Hussein. I also think that we should let Israel do as they wish and not tell them what to do.

Badnarik did get support from many members of the Jews for Firearm Preservation.

At 1:22 PM, Blogger Esther said...

US shouldn't be in the Middle East? You know its our funds that keep Egypt from attacking Israel. The money invested in Israel comes back to us multifold in advanced technology. You want to go back to isolationism? That will not save us.

At 2:05 PM, Blogger MissingLink said...

"Answer this why has Mr. Bush done so little to stop illegal immigration"
We sgould always compare oranges to oranges and apples to apples.

Fact that somebody makes a serious mistake on one issue doesn't automatically means that this person should be regarded as totally useless.

We elect our governments and therefore we give them CREDIT for making errors.

What makes you think you do not make mistakes?

Jake porter Says:
"I like George Washington believe .."
That is correct you BELIEVE.

At 2:21 PM, Anonymous Jake said...

"Fact that somebody makes a serious mistake on one issue doesn't automatically means that this person should be regarded as totally useless."

You are correct, I never said I didn't make mistakes. But why does Mr. Bush want to spy on Americans when our border is wide open for anyone to walk across with a nuke. Did I say for this one reason President Bush is useless?

Jake porter Says:
"I like George Washington believe .."
That is correct you BELIEVE.

Ok, when a person debates an issue they try to back up what they say and give support, that is all I was doing.

I have a question for everyone reading this blog, What kind of government does the United States have?

It may seem unrelated but I think it is very important?

Second question, If a majority of people vote to take your land away can they?

If Egypt attacks Israel, Israel wouldn't wait one second to launch a nuke right back at them, I doubt Egypt is that stupid. Israel has done a very good job protecting themselves. When we tell Israel don't shot this terrorist we are not helping anything.

At 3:10 PM, Anonymous Felis said...

"But why does Mr. Bush want to spy on Americans ......"

All Americans or some Americans?
A world of diffrence.

Was it about giving permission to spy on all Americans or those who were suspected by intelligence agencies?

"It may seem unrelated but I think it is very important?"

I am sure it is important but we aren't going to solve it here.
This is why, I suppose, our host (Esther) gives us a narrow issue for discussion instead of questions asking to define our political convictions etc.

At 3:50 PM, Anonymous Jake said...

"This is why, I suppose, our host (Esther) gives us a narrow issue for discussion instead of questions asking to define our political convictions etc."

You are correct, I am done debating you.

At 5:25 PM, Blogger Rory said...

"If Egypt attacks Israel, Israel wouldn't wait one second to launch a nuke right back at them."

I'm afraid history would prove otherwise. Israel has actually had nuclear weapons since the 1960's. Since then there have been two major wars, and years of terrorist attacks. Israel has never even threatened to use a nuclear weapon and maintains that these weapons would only be used in the case of an "Armageddon" scenario. First of all, they have to consider the fact that Israel and Egypt are in such close proximity that any use of a nuclear weapon would be unlikely to leave Israel unscathed. But, the fact remains that Israel has already said it will not be the first one to introduce nuclear weapons, and so far, they haven't done anything that would cause us not to believe them.

At 11:51 PM, Blogger patrickafir said...

Yeah, we are definitely, by and large, in a state of pre-9/11 complacence. Almost no one has bothered to pick up a Koran or do any other research about jihad. America is spectacularly successful in almost all spheres of endeavor, and one of the drawbacks of this success is ample temptation to ignore reality. A mushroom cloud over one of our cities will change that, and tragically, the petty politicking combined with an oblivious populace all but guarantees just that.

At 10:15 AM, Blogger Sergeant America said...

I worry along with Mr. Pipes.

Metaphysical debates, I'll pass.


At 10:42 AM, Blogger Sergeant America said...


Jake Porter

* Age: 17
* Gender: male
* Astrological Sign: Aquarius
* Zodiac Year: Rabbit
* Industry: Internet
* Occupation: website designer, custodian
* Location: Missouri : United States

About Me

Jake Porter is a 17 year old website designer. He is also a political activist.

At 10:56 AM, Blogger Esther said...

C'mon, Sarge... place nice. ;) Jake is enthusiastic. And as they say, show me a kid who's a republican and I'll show you a kid with no heart. Show me an adult who is still a democrat and I'll show you an adult with no brain. Or something to that affect.

Best to encourage while educating.

Sorry I haven't been on this thread more (or others) but tis this season to be too freakin' busy.

At 1:50 PM, Blogger Sergeant America said...


Sorry! When one has no DD214, no life experience, no experience as a member of America's electorate; my ole' neck hair just stands up ... automatically.

Perhaps it's just that I wish to "know" who is offering debate?

Perhaps it's remembering back to 1964 and Goldwater's Young Americans for Freedom that has me balk at discussing politics with teenagers?

You, of course, may delete the information posted in regard to "Jake." No harm ... no foul; in my opinion.


At 2:40 PM, Anonymous Jake said...

Sergeant America,

I take no offense to what was said and I know I said I was done debating this but you have encouraged me to come back.

"When one has no DD214, no life experience, no experience as a member of America's electorate; my ole' neck hair just stands up ... automatically."

Well I was taught in a government funded school if that is the point you are trying to get at.

I like how many people always without attacking my argument attack me for my age. How about Jesus, he was just a young man when he through the evil out of the temple. They probably looked at him and said, he is too young to have an opinion. (I am not comparing myself to Jesus).

If you want to debate facts please go ahead, if you want to debate age I will ignore you.

If you agreed with me would you be saying this?

At 6:03 PM, Blogger Sergeant America said...


You go right ahead ... I wasn't trying to be critical of you; but, be advised ... debate will have to come from others.

The beauty of individuality in the United States is that everyone may have an opinion.

The concept of actions precipitate consequences is one that makes us all stay within the "white lines" of reason. If one doesn't, then the consequences may just bite one in the arse.



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